Talking Point: with Aung San Suu Kyi

Burma's pro-democracy leader and Nobel Peace laureate Aung San Suu Kyi took part in a special edition of Talking Point as part of the BBC World Service 70th anniversary celebrations -- Friday, 13 December, 2002, 01:35 GMT

Transcript: BBC

Lyse Doucet:
Welcome to Talking Point with me Lyse Doucet. This week as part of our special series of programmes marking the 70th birthday of the BBC World Service, we're speaking with Aung San Suu Kyi, Burma's pro-democracy leader, winner of the 1991 Nobel Peace Prize.

Around the world, Aung San Suu Kyi is recognised, not just as a symbol of Burma or Myanmar as her country is known, but as a symbol of the struggle for democracy itself. Since she returned home to Burma, fifteen years ago, Aung San Suu Kyi has spent much of her time under house arrest although she was released, unconditionally it seems, by themilitary government in May of this year.

But political change in Burma has come slowly, if at all. Fighting for it requires patience and indeed sacrifice. Aung San Suu Kyi has made big personal sacrifices, separated for years from her two children and her late husband. Aung San Suu Kyi welcome to Talking Point. There was much talk when you were released that there had been secret talks with the military government. Do you feel that you and your National League for Democracy are now making some progress?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
First of all I would not like to think of them as secret talks. We started to talking to each other -let's put it that way. We think that we have made some progress but there's still a very, very long way to go.

Lyse Doucet:
Can you give us an indication of what kind of progress since you've been released from house arrest?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I suppose one of the most important things that has been achieved is that a number of political prisoners have been released. But there are hundreds still imprisoned for their beliefs - prisoners of conscience. Until all of them of released, I don't think we can say that we have made sufficient progress.

The other direction in which we have progressed is with the reopening of our party offices across the country.

Lyse Doucet:
We've received many, many callers and many e-mailers - people who want to ask you questions from around the world. We're going to take our first caller now - Tin Htun,
is on the line from California, USA.

Tin Htun:
My question first of all on behalf of the Burmese community and myself, we pray for long life for Aung Sang Suu Kyi and we pray for your continued struggle and your sacrifice for the Burmese people. My question is how long will we have to continue as exiles abroad?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
First of all thank you very much for your support. We do not want you to live as exiles abroad for one day more than necessary. But I think you have to understand that in politics, we can't say exactly when we will achieve our goal. The important thing is that
we should be unwavering in our efforts, however long it takes us and however hard the road, we must be prepared to go all the way because what we are doing is not just for ourselves but for the future generations of Burma.

Tin Htun:
We celebrate our independence day, our national day, our new year's day and all our festival days together in our country with family members, friends and elderly members too.

Aung San Suu Kyi:
Well please go on gathering together and please be united in your efforts. Please don't bicker among each other - that's very important

Tin Htun:
In the past two years, when the UN Secretary-General, Kofi Annan's special envoy for Burma, Mr Razali, visited to Burma, we always hoped something will change and good news will be on the way. But nothing - just hope - why?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I don't think one should always talk about hope, one should talk about work. I don't believe that one should talk about hope unless one is working towards something. We only have the right to hope if we are struggling. The important thing is to concentrate on
what we can do, not to concentrate on the hopes. If we do everything that we ought we ought to do, everything that we can do - we will realise our hopes in time.

Lyse Doucet:
We'll take a caller now from Singapore, Si Thu is on the line.

Si Thu:
In your opinion, how have the sanctions affected the people and consequently the nation? Do you think that the plight of the original people has been forgotten in the struggle for democracy?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
When you talk about sanctions, you have to be aware of the fact that the sanctions are very limited. They were imposed by the United States Government and only on future investments. American businesses which had been in Burma before the imposition of the sanctions continued to operate. So the sanctions are very limited in scope and the people in Burma who are affected by it are therefore consequently very few. The reason why there is not as much investment in Burma as there might have been is because the
political climate is not healthy.

Lyse Doucet:
Si Thu, anything else you would like to add to that?

Si Thu:
Now the military government has conceded, do you think it's time to lift the sanctions?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I think it is for the people of the United States to decide when they will lift the sanctions. Don't forget that it wasn't the NLD which imposed sanction on Burma, it was the United States Government.

Lyse Doucet:
But Aung San Suu Kyi, do you believe there should be stronger sanctions? A number of e-mails have asked about this. We heard from Steed in Taiwan he says: Do you believe
western countries must put stronger economic sanctions on Myanmar to help the people to improve their life? You mentioned they were very limited. Should they be wider?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
We have said officially that our policies with regard to sanctions will not change until such time as political dialogue is in place. So our policy remains the same. At the time when the sanctions were imposed, we supported the sanctions. We have not asked for
further sanctions but neither have we withdrawn our support for sanctions because there is not yet political dialogue in place.

Lyse Doucet:
But do you think those sanctions should be tougher and they should make a bigger difference?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I don't think it is sanctions alone which will make the difference, it is many things that will make a difference, including the efforts of the people of Burma themselves.

Lyse Doucet:
We're going to take a call from Chris Henny, Belgium:

Chris Henny:
Thank you very much for doing me the honour of taking my question. I have great admiration for your peaceful political stance and fortitude. My question is this: How long do you think it will be before the military government puts themselves firmly under civilian rule without stacking the deck in a general assembly or something like that, with reserved seats?

Secondly, as a business person, I have enormous respect for your position and have neither visited nor intend to invest in Burma until dialogue is re-established. At what point do you think I will be able to make a trip to Burma - which I would dearly love to do - and consider investment in your beautiful country?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I'm afraid we can't indulge in speculation as to how long the whole process will take. I hope very much that as soon as possible we will be moving towards positive change and that we will reach a point when people like you, with goodwill towards Burma, will be
able to come to help our people to realise their potential. Because there is enormous potential in Burma - economic, social - in many, many directions we can progress if only the situation were right. When the situation is going to be right is not a question that I can answer now. I don't think it will take too long, for the simple reason, that the people of Burma long for change. They want change and we are working as hard as possible for the kind of change that will benefit our country. So I hope it will not be too long before you can come to Burma and before we can all have the benefit of your goodwill.

Lyse Doucet:
Chris Henny, do you think it's taking impossibly long?

Chris Henny:
I think it's a shame that it has taken so long for the people who are currently governing the country to realise that there is a lot of goodwill out there and that we would dearly love to do so. But only under conditions where investment is possible and where a
government is considered stable and reliable and one can't easily take that position today.

Aung San Suu Kyi:
We agree with you that it is important for the political and economic climate - for both to be right and we are trying to move towards that point as soon as possible. I hope you will not be discouraged.

Chris Henny:
I certainly won't and I will certainly be watching everything that is done there and what you are asking.

Aung San Suu Kyi:
We'll try our best to make things go as quickly as possible.

Lyse Doucet:
I have to say, Aung San Suu Kyi, a number of our e-mails raise this issue about how long it will take. But it must seem very long for you indeed. Chaw Su lwinn, Singapore asks: What are the chances for progress in politics and economy for the people of Burma? Burma is now two or three decades behind its neighbours like Malaysia and Singapore? Gaytri, Northridge, California, USA asks: Do you believe that what you thought would be the solution for your country and the reality since you've come home are different? Do you ever stop and think that perhaps the slowness of the change is because the tactics are wrong? Have you ever thought you need to change your strategy?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
We have changed our tactics from time to time. We have always said that if one road is closed to us then we'll take another. The progress is slow for all of us who want progress to come quickly. But on the other hand, if you consider the fact that we have been struggling for 14 years and you think of countries like South Africa where the struggle went on for decades. We can't say that it is taking too long. After all what we've trying to do is to change the whole course of the future of our country and obviously that is a very difficult task and the more difficult the task the longer it tends to take. We are not at all discouraged. We would like change to come as quickly as possible but we are determined to go on struggling until change comes and we are confident that change will come - not as quickly as most of us would wish it to come - but it will come. And I think the more we all try to make change come instead of wondering when change will come, the quicker it will come.

Lyse Doucet:
Many of callers and e-mails have asked you very specific questions about what they can do. Let's take another call, Barrie Boulton is on the line from The Netherlands.

Barrie Boulton:
It's my very great pleasure to have this opportunity to talk with you Aung San. My question is this - it relates very much to what other people have been asking about the many thousands of people out there who want to know whether the time is right to visit Burma.

Do you recognise the role foreign travellers to your country can play by providing your people with an invaluable source of information that they would otherwise be denied? Or do you continue to maintain your view that foreign visitors to your country will be supporting, directly or indirectly, the military regime and therefore should be discouraged from coming at this time?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
Well let me separate your question into two parts. With regard to the NLD stand on tourism - we have not changed. As I said earlier, we are not going to change on matters on policy until such a time as political dialogue is in place. But the other part of the question, as to whether foreign travellers bring valuable information to the people of Burma. I have to say quite frankly that the people of Burma, in general, do not depend on tourists and foreign visitors to bring them information. If they are really intent on getting information about what is going on in the world and what is going on with regard to Burma, then they listen to foreign radio programmes such as the BBC and the DVB, the Democratic Voice of Burma, Radio Free Asia and so on. So those who really want information, do you have access - limited as it is - to information.

Lyse Doucet:
Let me just come in here to give you some of the other messages we've received from people making points very similar to Barrie Boulton.

Jeremy Green, London, England: I plan to visit Burma over the Christmas and New Year holidays. I have wanted to visit for many years but have held off because of the record of the military regime. Some people tell me that I'm being morally irresponsible for visiting Burma now as your release has not stopped the abuses of the regime. Is it, therefore, too early for a tourist with a moral conscience to visit your country?

A similar question comes from Malcolm Higgins, Taipei, Taiwan he asks: When can I start planning my trip to Burma?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
As I said, our policy with regard to tourism has not changed which is say that we have not yet come to the point where we encourage people to come to Burma as tourists. But let me say this: Burma is not going to disappear, it's going to stay here. We hope that as things change, Burma will become the kind of country that will be even more of a pleasure to visit than it is now.

Lyse Doucet:
You don't believe that by people visiting - taking home their reflections, talking about Burma when they come home can little by little have an impact?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I think it depends on how aware the visitors are. I think many visitors come here but are not aware of the political situation. They come here for a good holiday, they have a good time, they're interested in the unusual aspects of the country and then they go back. But I don't think they carry any very, very deep impressions of the political and social situation. So I don't think one can say that tourists come here and spread the word that change is necessary in Burma. I think it's those who are already interested in Burma who learn more about it. And for people like that, even without coming to Burma, they manage to learn about what is going on here.

Lyse Doucet:
An e-mail now from Neil Roberts, Hanoi: I was thinking of applying for a teaching job in Rangoon. What thoughts do you have on this?

Djon Bridge, Barcelona, Spain: The New York Metropolitan Museum is sponsoring a trip to Burma next year, and we wonder whether we should participate?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
With regard to the teaching job - I wonder where? I suppose in one of the private schools. I have to say that the Burmese education system is not all that could be desired. It is one of things that worry me most that the young people of Burma are not getting a good education. Consequently a number of private schools are springing up. But this is only for the privileged. For the great majority of Burmese children, they have to make do with the system as it is.

Large numbers of our young people are extremely frustrated because they realise that they're not getting a good education. If he is coming here to take up a teaching job, I suppose he is going to be teaching in one of the private schools which cater to the privileged.

Lyse Doucet:
Now you yourself have been travelling recently, Aung San Suu Kyi, through the Shan states and so many people can't see for themselves. What were your reflections on visiting these areas?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
One of the happiest experiences of my visit to the Shan states was the realisation that there is tremendous solidarity there. That although there's many, many different ethnic groups in Burma, we are all united in the desire for change. We are all united in the desire to make Burma a truly democratic union which is fit for all our peoples to live in.

Lyse Doucet:
Let's take another caller now, David Phillip Kramer is on the line from South Africa. David Kramer, your question please:

David Kramer:
I would like to ask Aung San Suu Kyi, what would she want in particular from the people of South Africa - the activists and the government?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I am very wary of giving people advice. But I would like to remind the people of South Africa that they have been through very, very difficult times themselves and we would appreciate it very much if they could view our situation with sympathy and do whatever they can to help us. I sometimes think that when change comes to a country like South Africa, people in authority forget that once upon a time they too were struggling. I have to be quite frank and say that I have often wondered whether the present government of South Africa does every- thing it can to support our cause or whether it is even interested in doing everything that it can to support our cause.

Lyse Doucet:
David Kramer, what's your feeling in South Africa? Do you feel they do give Burma the attention that it needs?

David Kramer:
I would agree with her. I think the government have largely ignored its moral position and echo her sentiments.

Lyse Doucet:
We're going to take a call now from Thailand. Liz Mulqueen is calling from Bangkok:

Liz Mulqueen:
Aung San Suu Kyi, it's an honour and a privilege to talk with you today and before asking my question, I would like to wish you all the very best in your continued struggle to restore democracy in Burma. My question to you: Mr Razali has visited Burma many times as a UN envoy but no changes have occurred as result of his visits despite widespread optimism. More recently there was a visit to Burma by Dr Mahathir Mohammed, prior to which it was reported that he too would seek a meeting with yourself. This never occurred and the only result of Dr Mahathir's visit was the takeover of Premier Oil's interests in Burma by Petronas, the Malaysian State oil company. Do you feel that Mr Razalie's alleged diplomatic visits were in good faith or that he simply acted as Mahathir's puppet by paving the way for Malaysia's economic support of the SPDC? There are after all no further visits to Burma planned by Mr Razali.

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I have full confidence in Mr Razali's integrity. I do not think he is a puppet of Dr Mahathir. I think he has acted in good faith and I think he himself has been disappointed in the slowness of the rate of change in Burma. I do not think it that it is fair on Mr Razali to make it appear as though he has achieved nothing. He has contributed towards better understanding between the SPDC and ourselves. But of course in the end it's is for us - we the people of Burma - to sort out our own problems and somebody like Mr Razali, with all the goodwill in the world can only help us so far as we are prepared to accept his help.

Liz Mulqueen:
I posed the question really because I do not know very much about Mr Razali although having lived in Malaysia for few years, I do know more about Dr Mahathir, so I'm very pleased that Aung San Suu Kyi has clarified that.

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I have to say that I look upon Mr Razali as a good friend of Burma.

Lyse Doucet:
But as a good friend of Burma, Aung San Suu Kyi, do you believe he can do more? We hear very little about any concrete steps. Is that in the nature of the process now?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
It's in the nature of the process. I believe that he is doing his best and that he would like to do as much as possible for us, if only he knew how. I think we're all trying to find out how we can speed up the process of change.

Lyse Doucet:
Many have asked what is actually happening beneath the surface.

We've had an e-mail from Aditya Sharma, Newark, USA: One possible problem with non-violent protest is thatthe results of such actions are not always immediate. In the amount of time needed for change, the oppressing party can inflict serious suffering on a country's population. Is it ever acceptable to use violence in order to bring about the end of long-term political suffering?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
This is to do with ways and means - do the means justify the ends or do the ends justify the means. I do not think that the end justifies the means. I think the means have to be right as well. Because if you choose the kind of methods that will eventually distort your goal, then you will have wasted all your efforts. I think it is better to take a little bit more time to make a little bit more effort - perhaps sometimes more than just a little bit - in order to achieve your goal in the way in which it should be achieved, that the benefits you reap might be long-term in nature.

It is possible for you to achieve your goal fast by using all kinds of ways that might be open to you. But then this could mean that in the end you distort the goals themselves and when you have reached where you think you wanted to get to, you find that it's a completely different scenario from what you had imagined because along the way you have created the kind of process that is bound to corrupt the ends themselves.

Lyse Doucet:
We'll take another caller now. On the line from Singapore is Tu Yain in Singapore.

Tu Yain:
If you become the leader of Burma, how are you going to reform the ineffective education system? In my opinion, I find that most of the Burmese children are not receiving proper education. I feel that education is really important for a nation's economy and I want every child in Burma to receive a proper education. So how are you going to achieve this?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I agree with you about the importance of education and I don't think we should wait for the time when I become leader of Burma to do something about the situation. I'm very concerned that something should be done for the young people of Burma, especially those who are in high school and university, as soon as possible. Otherwise we will be losing several generations of very capable young people simply because they have not been allowed to achieve their potential. Under a democratic government, of course, one the first priorities would be to rehabilitate and reorganise the whole education system.

Lyse Doucet:
We've received a number of very specific e-mails talking about the political process. David, Doha, Qatar asks: What sort of roadmap do you see for a transition of power from the current military government to an elected one? What sort of time frame do you think this should take?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
Well if you ask me what sort of time frame do I think t should take then it should be as quickly as possible. But we have to be realistic - certainly change is not going come within days and I don't think it's going to come within weeks either. But I think we could always work hard to try to make the change come within months. I don't think that is an impossibility.

As for a roadmap, this is something on which the SPDC and the democratic forces must agree. This is why I don't want to discuss it as this time. This is the kind of issue which should be discussed at the negotiation table.

Lyse Doucet:
A number of our e-mails have asked questions about what kind of model do you operate under. For example an e- mail from Kirsty Mckay, Sagamihara, Japan asks: How do the majority of people within Burma understand "democracy", given the widespread mis- information of the military government?

Another e-mail from John Saunders, Plymouth, UK: Does you believe that western-style liberal democracy can work successfully in an Asian context?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I think many so-called western-style liberal democracies are working in Asian countries. But I think it's very difficult to talk about a model as such. There have to be basic democratic institutions. For example, there must be an independent judiciary, there must be freedom of the press, there must be regular free and fair elections, there must be elected representatives of the people.

But having said that, I think in the end we'll develop our own model of democracy as we go along. But this is not to say that because it is our own model of democracy, it is any less democratic or any less liberal than, say, the United States model or the UK model. The important thing is that the people of Burma should understand that under a democracy they have responsibilities as well as rights and this is somehing I have been trying to convey to them whenever I go around the country. I am very encouraged by the reaction of our people by the responses of our people. I think they do understand that it's not just rights, it means responsibilities as well. And what do they understand by democracy - I've often asked them - and in the end it boils down to this. They want to be free to live their lives in their own way without harming others. They do understand that a democracy means you have to respect other people's rights as well as defending your own. I have learnt to respect my people greatly. I have found that very, very ordinary people in Burma - people in villages, people who have not had a very good education - they understand the need for freedom, the need for discipline, the need for security and the need to accept that we all have responsibilities.

Lyse Doucet:
But do they ever say to you Aung San Suu Kyi, that they should take action? It seems to be a lesson of protest movements worldwide that no one gives you democracy and freedom - you have to fight for it. The people you meet in Burma, do they never say, shouldn't we take to streets, shouldn't we do something, shouldn't we provoke something to move the situation on?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
There are some who see it that way. There are a lot of people who seem to leave it to my party and me to do whatever is necessary and I often have to remind them that neither one party nor one person can do everything that is necessary.

A lot of people ask me what they can do and I've thought about it quite a lot when I was travelling around the Shan states. And at one point, I decided that one thing that I could ask all the people of Burma to do - one very simple thing that everybody should dare to do - was simply not to support injustice. I've asked them to begin just with that.

Lyse Doucet:
Give us a specific example you would give to them, how not to, as you put it, support injustice?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
For example, if they know that something is wrong, if they know that something is unjust - not to go along with it simply because they're afraid or simply because they think that it is what those in authority would wish them do. Just not to say something is good if it's not good. Not to say that something is just if it is not just. Only that - that's a small thing to start with. But I think it could achieve a lot. If everybody in Burma would stop themselves from saying some- thing is good, if it is not good, and from saying that something is just, if it is not just, I think we will be making a great move forward.

Lyse Doucet:
We have a caller on the line from Israel. Kyaw Min Soe from Israel who is Burmese.

Kyaw Min Soe:
Do you want to see the military regime form their own party and take part in Burmese politics?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
This is possible but if they will do it under a democratic rules, as it were, I don't see why they should not be allowed to do that.

Kyaw Min Soe:
My other question is if there is going to be a dialogue between the NLD and the military regime? So that if the military regime wants to make dialogue do you want the NLD to go it alone or including CRPP which was formed from the beginning after the election?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
We agree with the United Nations that real negations - genuine political negotiations - must include the ethnic nationalities. The great majority of the ethnic nationality parties have come to the conclusion that they would be quite happy for negotiations to start just between the SPDC and the NLD. But there must come a point when everybody else is included. When I say everybody else, I don't mean the 50 million people in Burma, but different political forces and certainly the ethnic nationalities.

Lyse Doucet:
We have another Burmese national on the line calling us from Singapore. Naing Moe Aung. What's your question for Aung San Suu Kyi?

Naing Moe Aung:
In my view for Burma to become a very strong and democratic country, I think it's very important that we formulate some more interests among different ethnic groups to create a common vision. I think diversity is one of the greatest trends of our country and if we capitalise on that in a correct way, I think we can face all the challenges ahead of use. So the challenge for us is how to create strength through diversity and create unity out of it. How can we create an atmosphere where all our ethnic groups say that this is where we want to go and we go there together? So how do we create that?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I think that after my visit to the Shan state, I've come to the conclusion that we're all well on the way to creating unity out of diversity. I think a great many of our ethnic nationalities have come to the conclusion that we need to be united - that united we stand and I think we share very many common goals. This is why it has been such a great happiness for me to have visited the Shan states. The situation is so much better, so much more encouraging than I had imagined. The sense of solidarity, the unity within the different ethnic nationalities is very, very great. We do share common goals and they are aware of that. So we have to go on trying.

The Burmese are the majority race in Burma and it is very important that we are prepared to shoulder our responsibilities as a majority race and we have to be very sensitive to the hopes and fears and aspirations of the other ethnic nationalities. I am not sure which ethnic nationality you belong to, but if you are Burmese then I think you have to be aware of the fact that you have very many responsibilities and you must be sensitive to the feelings of other ethnic nationalities.

Lyse Doucet:
This question of the persecution of minorities has been raised in many e-mails we've received from around the world. We heard from Aye Aye Maw in Washington who asked: Do you really think that all the minorities who wanted to break away from Myanmar right after the independence from British now going to stay quiet if the government in Myanmar changes?

Another e-mail from Shaik Ubaid, New York, USA: I am a physician and a human rights activist. I am greatly concerned about the persecution and ethnic cleansing of Rohingiya Muslims of Arakan. Does your vision include a pluralistic Burma with equal rights for all, including religious minorities?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
Democracy does mean pluralism and democracy means equal basic human rights for everybody. I am confident that we can build up a really strong and united Burma. The signs are all here. In some ways, the sufferings we have undergone together have built up a tremendous feeling of trust among each other. Our sufferings have united us. I think the world has opened up in such a way that different cultures are able to reach across to each other.

We all live in the same country - we have lived in the same country for centuries and because we have lived together so closely, we have had our problems. You have more problems with your neighbours than with people who live very far away from you - that's only natural. But I think we can also learn to be very, very good neighbours in the same way because we all live in this country we can learn to be very good and loving towards each other. We can learn to trust each other, we can learn to work together, we can learn to live together and I think that learning process has already begun.

Lyse Doucet:
We'll take another call now. On the line from New Jersey in the United States, Timothy Lewers. Timothy what would you like to ask Aung San Suu Kyi?

Timothy Lewers:
Even if your presence has moderated the evil in your country, has it been worse in reality because you prolonged it? You have a personal life to live. I know that you sacrificed quite a bit as far as your family is concerned. I imagine that it might have been better if you had deserted the country and let the government collapse on its basis because of their incompetence. They sort of held you up as a light - I just wonder if what's really happened has been worth it for you and for the country?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I'm not the only one who is working for democracy in Burma and I have been protected by the fact that I'm well known. Many of my colleagues are not protected by this and they have made many more sacrifices than I have. In fact, I don't look upon what I have done as making a sacrifice. I've always said that I made a choice, I didn't make any sacrifices, I simply made choices and I think a lot of my colleagues feel the same way. They have made the choices, they do not think that they are making any sacrifices. But they are very brave and they are very good people and I would never, never dream of deserting them.

Lyse Doucet:
What about the second part of his question, that simply by your being in Burma, in effect you've helped to prop up the military government?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
Well, I do not think so and I do not think the SPDC think that either. It's a very novel way of looking at the situation.

Lyse Doucet:
Thank you Timothy Lewers but I have to say Aung San Suu Kyi, I know you don't like to talk about your personal sacrifices but Stephanie in London asked the very same question. Neil is on the line from Sweden, go ahead Neil.

Neil:
I wanted to ask you when will you be collecting your Nobel Peace Prize?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I hope as soon as possible because I would like to go to Norway to thank the people of Norway for everything that they have done for us. Norway is very far away from Burma and they have nothing to gain from whatever we achieve here. So it is simply because they believe in human rights and justice that they have supported us over all these years and I really appreciate their warmth and their solid support for us.

Neil:
Because you've got a lot of supporters there as well - there are a lot of exiles living there. The question is, would they be going back?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I hope so. I'm confident that they will come back oneday. But what we don't know is when that day will come but we would like that day to come as soon as possible. I want Burma to be a country that is a sanctuary for all its citizens.

Neil:
Could you shed a bit more light on the generals? We ear a lot about you but who are these generals and what are they like? When you talk to them how do they respond to you?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I think the generals are human beings like all of us. They are Burmese and I hope because they are Burmese, they will eventually do whatever is best for Burma. I have no personal animosity against any of them and I have to say that when I do meet them, I get on with them well enough. After all it is my father who founded the Burmese Army and I do have a sense of warmth towards the Burmese Army. I was brought up to view soldiers as my father's sons, if you like. So I've always had a family feeling towards the armed forces of Burma and it is a great pity that things have come to this point when we should be divided because of our different beliefs. I do believe that these problems can be overcome. I would like these generals to understand that we all have to work together for the sake of the country. Not for them, not for us but for the country and our people.

Neil:
In other words, you'd be able to forgive them?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I don't think it's a question of forgiveness. I saw in some Japanese soap opera which was on Burmese television some time ago, some character said - who am I to forgive or not forgive. I thought that was rather a nice comment - who am I, what am I that I should decide whether I forgive people or I do not forgive people.

Lyse Doucet:
But on that point that Neil made about the military generals, Robert Moore asked: Are you really free now or are there still limits on your movement? Do the generals treat you differently? The first time you were released from house arrest, there were restrictions, are there any now?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
There are no restrictions that I am aware of, I think people do follow me around to find out what I am doing or perhaps it's simply for my security. I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Lyse Doucet:
Neil Ritchie, Aberdeen, UK Has there been any time in your long struggle where you have even for a moment lost hope?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
No, I've never lost hope. I've lost my temper from time to time though.

Lyse Doucet:
We've heard information over the years of how you spend your time. You are said to be very disciplined, you follow a strict routine. We understand that that routine includes listening to the BBC World Service which is celebrating its 70th birthday this year. The military government in Burma responded to our birthday by describing us as a "sky full of lies". How would you describe the importance of the World Service and its role in your life?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
It played a very central role in my life during my years of house arrest. I think I must have listened to the BBC something five to six hours every day at least. That is how I kept up with what was going on in the world. It gave me many, many hours of pleasure - it was not just information. It was - what do you call it - news, views, information and entertainment - I'm not quite sure what the slogan is. But anyway I got all of that from the BBC and I'm very, very grateful. I shall always think of the BBC as a lifeline.

Lyse Doucet:
Do you believe that international media, like the BBC, have a role to play in the struggle for democracy for political change?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
Very much so, this is why I think it is important for the BBC and other news media to act with a sense of responsibility because their influence can be very widespread.

Lyse Doucet:
Now throughout this programme you've talked about your methods of resistance. It's clear you believe in patience. But Barbara Nicholls, Colombo, Sri Lanka says: Do you believe your methods of resistance are working and can Buddhism inspire a politics capable of dealing effectively with the Bin Ladens of this world? Clearly your sense of political tactics are very different from Bin Laden but is this inspired in part by your religious beliefs?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
First of all I don't think I'm particularly patient. I've never liked this idea of being on a monument smiling at grief - I think it's quite ridiculous. But I think one has to develop a sense of endurance. One has to be able to endure whatever one comes across if you are engaged in a struggle like ours.

Has Buddhism played an important part? Yes, Buddhism plays an important part in my life because it has strengthened me spiritually. It has given me the strength to continue to work under very, very difficult circumstances.

With regard to the Bin Ladens of the world, if you are talking about terrorists and of those who believe in violence. I think that in some cases, violence seems to get the upper hand from time to time but I think in the long run, violence destroys more than it creates. So in the long run I think the real winner is non-violence. I don't think violence is the real winner. But in the short run it may seem as though violence gets its own way.

Lyse Doucet:
Sharleen Leahey, New Jersey, USA asks: Can you name someone whose life and work has inspired you?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
There are many of course who's life and work have inspired me but I have always been very open about the fact that it is my father who has been my greatest inspiration. Not just as a leader but as somebody who was very young at the time he died and who died without completing his work. And because of that he has inspired me to try to help our people to complete the process of building up the kind of country that he would like to have seen.

Lyse Doucet:
There are people around the world who've looked to you for inspiration. You may know that the Irish rock group, U2, dedicated the music and lyrics of their song, "Walk On", to you. Steve Elliott in California wanted to know whether you knew about that and whether they played any role in your release?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I did know about the song. I don't know that they played a particular role in my release. But I think everybody who supported us has played some role in not just my release but the release of other political prisoners and I'm very, very grateful to them. And of course it's a great honour to have a group like U2 dedicate a song to me.

Lyse Doucet:
In all these many years of struggle, you've been continuing, Aung San Suu Kyi, some people asked about these reports that after you were released in May that perhaps you were ready now to make concessions. Was there any truth in those reports?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I've always said that we are ready to engage in give and take. But give and take has to mean that both sides give as well as take. It doesn't mean that one side gives everything and the other side takes everything. So give and take is very important. And we have always believed in flexibility and compromise. Compromise on issues that would affect the whole nation, not compromise on principles.

Lyse Doucet:
Let's take another call from Mali in the Maldives. Ahmed Nassir is on the line. Ahmed Nassir, what would you like to ask?

Ahmed Nassir:
I'm pleased to at least hear your voice because I have been reading up to this time about various news items of you being arrested and later released. For a person like me, coming from a remote region, this is quite exciting. I am also excited because in spite of the hard- ships that you faced this moment probably would be the best time for you to go ahead. I would like to say a lot of things but let me just say, that it has been great that you have maintained your spirit and given hope to a lot of people including people like us and I wish you all the luck. Best wishes to you.

Aung San Suu Kyi:
Thank you very much and I would like you to know that people like you help me a great deal. There are so many people I don't know who have wished me well and although I do not know them, each time I hear one person wishing us well, it has helped me, it has encouraged me. So I would like you to know that every little bit helps and that nobody is unimportant. Every single well wisher has done something for us.

Lyse Doucet:
Ahmed Nassir, thank you very much for calling us with your comments.

Thomas in Toronto, Canada asks you: Do you feel there are elements of the struggle in Burma that might be relevant to nation-building around the world? Are there any lessons from Myanmar?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I hope there will be. I think it's a little bit too early to say but I very much look forward to the time when people all over the world can take lessons from Burma in the matter of nation building - how we have managed to get over our differences, how we have managed to work together in trust and confidence and how we have managed to make our country once again one of the best and happiest countries in our region.

Lyse Doucet:
It's a mark of your stature, Aung San Suu Kyi that so many of the callers and so many of the e-mails we've received have asked you for very specific advice - what countries should do, what they should do as persons, as tourists, as teachers.

But throughout our conversation with you, you've almost made it seem as though you want Burma sealed off from the world. Is there nothing that the outside world can do? Because of course if people visit Burma, they bring not just there interest in Burma but they also can bring economic growth, money, investment to your country - none of these things would make a difference?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
Of course they would make a difference. At the right time they would make a tremendous difference. I think if I have given the impression that I want Burma sealed off from the world, then I've not been expressing myself well. I certainly do not want Burma sealed off from world. I want Burma to be an open country - open to different experiences, open to different people. I want our people to learn from the world and I want the world to be able to learn from us. I want it to be a process of mutual exchange and I very much look forward to the day when this will be possible without exacerbating already existing problems.

Lyse Doucet:
Aung San Suu Kyi, we're very grateful for all the time that you've given us for today. I know you don't like predictions but for all that you know of what's going on in Burma - your talks with the generals - this time next year do you think anything in Burma will have changed?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I think it will have changed. I don't things will remain unchanged for another year.

Lyse Doucet:
But specifically? Something you're hoping might work out, some specific changes?

Aung San Suu Kyi:
I can't say specifically what. But whatever change it is, I very much think that it will be for the better.

Lyse Doucet:
Let's hope it is better for the people, for the country of Burma - of Myanmar. Thank you very, very much for joining us Aung San Suu Kyi. Thank you for being with us and we want to thank everyone who has taken part in the programme. I'll be here again next week but for now from me Lyse Doucet, goodbye. Goodbye Aung San Suu Kyi.

Aung San Suu Kyi:
Thank you and you've somehow or other managed to charm me into staying for the whole 55 minutes. Thank you very much. [Vicky] Do you want me to leave this last piece out?

Lyse Doucet:
Aung San Suu Kyi, we thank you very, very much. But I have to say it was quite extraordinary - the e-mails we received for you were very different from others in Talking Point. They do look to you for wisdom and it's extraordinary how much your word goes down. People were writing to us about their holidays and what they planned to do - their lives almost dependent on what you tell them to do or not to do.

Now I'll stop being a journalist and say as a person that it's been pleasure for all of here. I have to say that our producers are walking on air for having had the chance to speak with you and we wish you well and we do wish you well in Burma.

Aung San Suu Kyi:
Thank you very much and I have to say you're irresistible. I meant to get back to my work here but everybody kept making faces to indicate that I should stay with you because this is so important. I'm very grateful to you for everything that you have been to me during those six years and everything that you are to my people now.

Lyse Doucet:
We thank you and we thank you too all the Burmese - some of whom got up at 4 o'clock in the morning in the United States just for the pleasure to speak with you and if any of the generals are listening in, we hope for everything to go well in Burma.